Denial

A person can be empowered to do one or more service to Krishna. This empowerment will enthuse others, make them receive so much inspiration and joy in their service to Krishna.

Empowerment does not equal being a Bhagavat and that this person is someone to accept as siksa. It means that there is a certain function this person is supposed to perform, and all glories to that person for performing it.

There has been one issue that has become a public secret. It’s troublesome that it’s not being dealt with to my knowledge.

While the sannyasis may debate tattva and authenticity, that is their prerogative and duty. But there is one other HUGE issue that is not dealt with, but lies there in the background. Not really used as an argument and rightly so because it’s an issue that should be handled on its own.

There is an accusation of the molestation of a couple of boys (children young adults) by Premananda Prabhu (PP). There is a recorded talk with at least one of the mothers of the molested boys.

The biggest indicator that our sangha is sick, is that this is not being dealt with. Why?

The only reason I can fathom is because there is no authority to deal with it – the sannyasi council or whatever have no real power to enforce rules and restrictions on anybody. I don’t know. This is very disturbing.

This is not a case of deviation – something between two consenting adults. These are allegations of a crime. A crime should always be reported to the police – preferably in both india and the country of origin of the boys/young adults.

These are allegations – so it’s not something that has been proven. But it should be investigated. By the police and by the sangha.

In such cases there should be one devotee who has the main responsibility to take care of the family of the victim, and one devotee with the main responsibility to take care of the alleged perpetrator.

The alleged perpetrator should never be allowed to be alone with any person below the age of 18 until the claims have been resolved.

The discussions regarding siddhanta is actually a healthy sign of the sangha – it means it’s alive and kicking. But this – this is the real test because it requires so much cooperation, tender management and know how.

PP has been empowered to build Gurudevas samidhi and does a wonderful job at that. His followers are enthusiastic and receive a lot of joy from working with him. This is not something to marginalize in any way. All I’m saying is that these allegations needs to be dealt with and resolved somehow.

There can be no room for such allegations to run amok within our community.

Update 08. october: When I first heard the rumor I was told it was children involved. Now that I have more sources and evidence, this seems mistaken. The alleged victims involved are young adults. Though we are still speaking of a crime, it lessens the heaviness of the issue a lot. So this should be noted by everyone.


I need to point out that this is something I have decided to publish on my own (like everything on this blog). It’s not something I have asked any devotee from KBM about.

 

28 thoughts on “Denial

  1. Who are you? Your name, which country are you from? You are posting this on your own, but what are your sources?
    Who are the boys your refer to? One boy who was supposedly molested recently noted online that nothing of the sort had happened to him.
    As someone who has lived with the person you are accusing of this terrible thing for 20 years, I can say that I’ve personally never experienced anything like the things that you write here, and I have spent a lot of time alone with him serving him. Nothing has ever happened to me, nothing has happened to the many dozens of boys who have lived with him over the years, and also served him closely, nor has anything happened to the dozens of bramacaris living with him now.
    So who are these “children” you refer to? Are you simply posting unsubstantiated slander in the internet?
    Once you have made an accusation like you have there is no way to prove that it is not true. You simply give a dog a bad name and then hang him.
    This world is a very sad place.

    • “Once you have made an accusation like you have there is no way to prove that it is not true. You simply give a dog a bad name and then hang him.”

      I understand that this is interpreted as an accusation, but the accusations have already been “out there” for a year or more. What I have done is making it public and asking for investigation into it. Child molestations is too serious a crime to go without consequences in religious communities – especially in religious communities. The catholic church is a good indicator how religious communities can hide and promote child abusers – allowing them to destroy lives in the process.

      This public secret needs to be investigated. There can be no room for such allegations to run amok within our community without being dealt with.

      You also forget the victim side of this issue – the people that may have to deal with abused children, that has too deal with the sangha and the mistrust and disbelief they will meet. Going public on this creates a great pressure on them. So I’m actually more worried about the possible violence I do towards the possible victims and their families.

      Innocent until proven guilty in reality puts all the burden of proof on the accusers who is already under a heavy burden.

      There are no winners in such stories.

      • Innocent until proven guilty is nevertheless the legal standard in the country I am grin and India, but of course the court of public opinion has much lower standards.
        You mention ‘a couple’ of individuals that something happened to, and I noted that one individual had posted a denial that he was a victim of any such abuse online. Can you acknowledge that fact in this public trial? If the supposed victims are themselves decrying these allegations then why are you posting them online?
        Like I said I have lived with the accused for 20 years and have never witnessed nor experienced anything like the accusations you are making here. It does seem to me that you are simply spreading slander without basis or evidence.

    • “f the supposed victims are themselves decrying these allegations then why are you posting them online?”

      I would like you to send me the link to klungvik@gmail.com

      “It does seem to me that you are simply spreading slander without basis or evidence.”

      Yes, many will have the same opinion as you and it’s a value-based issue. You place more importance on not publicising unproven claims. I place more importance on that serious criminal accusations should be investigated. In this case both of us can be right. I am by no means certain I am doing the right thing. I have known this for a year and been hoping somebody else would take the fall.

  2. Copied from the timeline of *** (name edited out), posted on September 6

    Note: Sensitive material! Friends and family, please pardon the distasteful nature of this post.

    Rumor has it that I was molested by a teacher of mine in India. What a nice welcome back to the West Coast, folks! To set the record straight, I never had such an experience with Prabhuji. He always treated me with friendly and appropriate kindness and respect. I simply wish to be left out of the gossip machine.

    In crude terms, if something isn’t true, it’s shit. I’ve indulged in gossip. I know what it tastes like. Gossipers, please, stop eating shit and feeding it all around. It’s not healthy and simply obscures whatever the truth of the situation is. Before you blab, ask. If you want to know embarrassing details of my life, just ask me personally. I have learned to laugh and weep with equal gusto and will gladly share.
    I have had two separate minor run-ins with the pedophile type. I was not physically harmed, I was able to create the necessary boundaries, and there was no continuation of the behavior. I was mostly just unnerved and disgusted. I find I am sometimes awkward around other men and find it challenging to trust them, but that doesn’t bother me too much, because…well, women are great!

    From what I can tell, we live in a pretty fucked-up world. Sexual harassment is rampant. I keep a keen eye peeled for tell-tale signs of such predators and I am perfectly comfortable with severe measures of justice, as determined by the victims. Reparations must be made. Hyper-sexual behavior needs to be weeded out on cultural and communal levels.

    For those who insist on keeping their heads stuck in the sand, you are, in my opinion, worse than the offenders. There is no excuse for intentional blindness. If those you prop up on the shoulders of your faith and adulation are going around exploiting the innocent, you will eventually find your existence unbearable. So, grow a set and do the right thing. Better late than never, right?

    Rasik Mohan Das

    its bewildering just thinking who starts such nonsense. Sadly, it just takes one person to start a false rumor rolling about a person and then so many people have to deal with the shit as you mention.

    Rasik Mohan Das

    for me and other boys, like Prem Pradipa, and so many who have lived closely with Prabhuji and witnessed his character 24/7, 365, it is just madness the nonsense people say. Sravan, Gaurasundar, Venu Gopal, Krsna Karunya, both Giridhari’s brahmacaris, and so many other boys have lived years and years with Prabhuji, it is so offensive not just to Prabhuji, but to us as well, the rumors I’ve heard recently from England etc. especially when they are exposed as lies, like in your case. Just the other day, someone in the West said a story was “confirmed” by so and so brahmacari living in the Matha right now, and when that brahmacari heard, he was so pissed off at the lie. Anyway, what to do? For us living here over 10 years with Prabhuji, with our first hand experience, people saying the stuff they are about him is like them saying the Sun is a dark lightless planet. What a sad, mad joke.

    Rasik Mohan Das

    Write a comment…
    Pasirinkti failą

    • I have edited out the comments as I don’t saw the relevance.

      I’m looking into if he is one of the boys in question. The problem is that the rumor mill may point to the wrong persons – and that is exactly why we need investigation into these things. I don’t like that people will automatically try to figure out the identity of the people involved – but they do and may create unintentional damage in their pursuit.

      This is why we need these things investigated – so that the rumor mill can relax knowing that a problem is in capable hands.

  3. Haridasi is correct, an investigación should be done due to the heaviness of the issue. Those having posts of responsability in the sanga should come out and do whatever necesary. It is necesary that a neutral person deals with this issue to ensure that truth comes out. This is the only way to come out of this.

  4. In all fairness, Srivasa was never mentioned amongst the list of victims. So it is good that the unfair rumour about him was denied. There are other victims, apparently, they will come forward when they feel the time is right. They have contacted senior devotees, but the decision is up to them. Until then, all have to wait and see. Gaura Prana told to some, including his mother, but I myself never heard directly from her. But others are there, in the name of justice they may come forward when the time is right.

  5. Please take out a moment to read the following excerpt from the book “Revealed Truth”, in which Srila Bhakti Sundar Govinda Maharaja (the author of the book) relates how his guru (Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Maharaja) had a conversation with Srila Prabhupada Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura about how to deal with devotees who do wrong:

    “The purifying force of devotion”

    Śrīla Guru Mahārāj once questioned Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur about what should be done when a gentle devotee does something wrong. Śrīla Guru Mahārāj was highly educated and an authority in material law. He was thinking that a devotee
    should be punished according to material rules when he breaks the rules or regulations, but Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur did not agree. Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur said, “Your forehead, that is, your future, is born from your conception. Maṇi-maya-mandiramadhye paśyati pipīlikā chidram: if you focus on the faults of a
    devotee then your conception will be like that of an ant. An ant enters a temple decorated with golden jewels and looks only for the holes in the walls. Only when you look for the good qualities in the devotees will your future be exalted. Only then will you proceed properly towards service.”

    Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur answered Śrīla Guru Mahārāj in this way but did not fully answer his question. Then one day about six months later in Madras as Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur was reading Śrīmad Bhāgavatam in his room, a verse came before him, and he called for Śrīla Guru Mahārāj, “Here is the answer to your question.” Śrīla Guru Mahārāj had asked Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur his question about the misbehaviour of devotees six months before. When Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur said, “Here is your question’s answer,” Śrīla Guru Mahārāj was surprised and thought, “What is my question?” When Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur handed him the book and Śrīla Guru Mahārāj saw the verse, he immediately remembered and understood which question Śrīla Saraswatī Ṭhākur was answering. That verse was,

    sva-pāda-mūlaṁ bhajataḥ priyasya
    tyaktānya-bhāvasya hariḥ pareśaḥ
    vikarma yach chotpatitaṁ kathañchid
    dhunoti sarvaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ
    (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 11.5.42)

    The meaning is that it is not necessary to apply material law to dedicated devotees of the Lord. It is possible that dedicated devotees may do something wrong; their mundane body and mental position are not always in a liberated state. It is possible that they may sometimes be polluted by the illusory environment. But because they are dedicated, because they are serving
    the Lord and chanting His Holy Name, the Lord is living within their heart, and the Lord will clean their heart. The Lord will remove their offences by His divine influence. If they are dedicated to Kṛṣṇa then He will take care of everything. It is
    not necessary for a dedicated devotee to do any prāyaśchitta, atonement.

    We can also understand that a dedicated devotee will always feel anutāp, regret, when they understand that they have done something wrong. They will think, “Why have I done this? It is very bad!” They will scrutinise themselves very seriously in this way, and the fire of their repentance will purify their hearts of pollution. This verse (sva-pāda-mūlam) is necessary for everyone to discuss and understand. There are very powerful feelings within it, and when everyone will understand it they will be purified very quickly.

    Service to the Lord is transcendental, no doubt, but we cannot say when liberation will come in the life of a dedicated soul. It is also necessary for everyone to follow the material and social laws, and maintain themselves in the material world without making any disturbance in society. People are always hating others when they see them improperly following the laws of society, but no solution to that comes through hate. The only solution is dedication and service to the Lord. The Lord and the power of devotion purify the hearts of everyone and remove any and all traces of mundane desire and ego. Nothing
    external can do that.

    Śrīla Guru Mahārāj taught us that whenever we see a bad quality in someone it is a test given to us by Kṛṣṇa to purify us. Śrīla Guru Mahārāj gave us that vision, and we feel that if everyone will see with that type of vision, then Kṛṣṇa will be happy, and everyone will be spiritually benefitted. This is so important because we live in an ocean of faults, and we can find someone with faults everywhere. Many of the spiritual practitioners around us are not perfect. We will become hopeless if we do not try to see the good qualities in others and in our environment.

    A Western scholar, Katherine Mayo, once came to India to learn about Indian philosophy but after arriving she publicly criticised Indian culture. When this happened Mahatma Gandhi said, “She has not come to appreciate the wealth of India. She has come to inspect India’s drains. She is a drain inspector.” We heard this story from Śrīla Guru Mahārāj.

    We should not be drain inspectors. By Kṛṣṇa’s mercy we should try to see beauty and charm everywhere. Śrīla Guru Mahārāj said, “To err is human and to forgive is divine.” Everyone has imperfections and will sometimes do something wrong. Why should we lose our own devotional mood because of that? Through his devotional mood Śrīla Guru Mahārāj could see goodness everywhere. He would give great respect to all devotees, and also give great respect even to persons who were against Vaiṣṇavism.

    Dedicated devotees may do something wrong but we should not act like ants that see only the holes of a golden temple (maṇimaya-mandira-madhye paśyati pipīlikā chidram). We should not be a drain inspector looking for devotees’ faults. We have much more capacity than ants. We should see that all dedicated devotees have golden property within their hearts, and we should consciously try to recognise their good qualities.

    ***End of excerpt***

    I am not posting this excerpt in an attempt to ‘just silence and cover up the present rumors’, as some readers of this blog may quickly like to conclude. Rather I am posting this as a questioning whether your approach of how to deal with this type of accusations (in this specific situation, as well as in any case of accusations towards a Vaisnava in the past or future) is really the proper way to go about according to Vaisnava behavior in the line of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura.

    Those of us who have had the good fortune of directly witnessing how our Srila Gurudeva (Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja) dealt with situations in which devotees had actually stepped out of line, will surely remember how Srila Gurudeva always honored and followed this approach of Srila Sarasvati Thakura.

    It is a matter of faith in Guru and God whether or not we can accept this approach and truly believe in the words of Srimad-Bhagavatam (in this regard in particular in Verse 11.5.42) and its purports given by our Gaudiya Guru-varga. For most of us this is a real test and challenge, especially when allegations are of the kind under discussion right now, as we are conditioned by mundane ideas of justice. In the past, however, we have seen examples of devotees who could not accept. They, also, thought it was necessary to trial those who had done wrong by following material law, but the result was only their own downfall from the path of bhakti…

    • This was a great text, and I loved reading it. It gives a very good way of how to deal with the faults one see in other sadhakas.
      Now I agree with you that this is a good way of dealing with deviating sadhakas within our movement.

      But as you know: in this case there is a lot of caveats where I think this doesn’t apply.

      PP is passed off and accepted as a Bhagavat. That means this is a whole different ballgame.
      We are not talking about a regular, struggling sadhaka which is what this text applies to.

      Then it’s about how Gurudeva dealt with such situations. From my knowledge Gurudeva never dealt with child molestations.
      Sexual, non-consenting behaviour yes, but not child molestations. There’s a huge difference.

      You also point to examples where devotees with a conception of following material law results in their downfall.
      Well, whenever I hear people utter that their bhakti will be lost because they have objections I cringe inside.
      It’s a scare tactic – exactly meant for silencing objections.

      Why do we spend so much effort in making people interested in Krishna, but the moment they are “caught” and disagree with our views we warn them about the loss of bhakti?
      How about this? If I am still a devotee in two years: meaning I have not lost my bhakti for questioning PP – will you then leave him?

      Will you then suddenly change your opinion and think that “no, he can’t be a vaishnava since she didn’t fall down”. Of course not – it’s ridiculous.

      I can also turn this text around: Krishna says that material rules do not apply for dedicated devotees, because Krishna will take care of it.
      Well – may be Krishna did just that by making me publish these accusations.
      By making the accusations known, suddenly the accuser will start to feel some regret, will begin to repent.

      So what I have done can be intepreted both ways: I loose my bhakti for questioning a vaishnava – or I have just performed some service Krishna wanted me to do.

      I guess time will tell. Will you keep track?

    • I’m not really sure how to understand this comment. An investigation would require at least two (hopefully neutral) persons who contacts and interviews both the alleged perpetrator and victims. It requires that one can set into motion some rules/consequences in how to deal with such cases and have the authority to be accepted. This is not an easy thing. To deal with such difficult things within an organization (or even seperate groups) is not to be taken lightly.

  6. Dandavat pranams to all,

    Imagine you live in a neighbourhood and there is this one man who is truly great and everyone loves him. He looks after your children when you need help etc. Than one day your friend’s kid says he touches them in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable.
    So what do you do, you will go and ask the man and what will he say?
    “Oh yeah,.. sure, I touch them inappropriately cause it makes me feel good ” ???

    Whether true or not, this is not a matter of mere discussion on subject matter. Not amongst us, not amongst the accused and/or potential victims.

    This is a serious matter to be properly investigated by authorities. Evidence, witnesses, statements, etc. all needs to be carefully brought together and looked into.

    You may belong amongst those who fully trust and love PP and that is all well, even more reason to strive to have the matter properly looked into.

    This is not a matter of: let’s prove PP is guilty off this,
    rather a matter of: let’s ensure this has not happened to these children/ or anyone and if it has let’s make sure they receive all the necessary support to recover.

    So, as much as it sounds to be about PP and that is why all his beloved followers and disciples are rightfully standing behind him – it is first and foremost about the potential victims. And for their sake this must be properly investigated.

    Please forgive my limited english, i hope i was able to express my intentions in the desired light.

    aspiring dasanudasi,
    jdd

  7. Hare Krsna!

    Dandavat-pranamas!

    I appreciate your show here of a desire to bring the truth to light. If any of my personal experience will help shed truth or light on this matter in your eyes, well then, I hope I can be of service in this discussion.

    I’ve lived as Sripada Premananda Prabhu’s sevaka for eleven years. Most of that time I’ve been there to observe his ideal behavior and character day and night and have also witnessed his connection with and the words spoken about him by recognized maha-bhagavatas, like our beloved Srila Gurudeva, Srila Trivikrama Gosvami Maharaja, Srila Vamana Gosvami Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Gosvami Maharaja, and so forth. So I speak from the perspective of someone quite educated in the realm of personal experience in this case and can only say that aside from his constant engagement in bhakti and service, his personal character is impeccable as far as I have witnessed. Many others who have lived with him are not speaking out publicly, but over many years, including the decade before I was in the Matha, i.e. the late 90’s and early 2000’s, there have been other Western and Indian brahmacaris who have lived with Premananda Prabhu and attest to his pure character. Even Srila Gurudeva in 2003, said that if you follow Premananda Prabhu’s character, bhakti, sraddha, service to Guru, etc. than you can also be a Vaisnava. As if to fulfill testify his point about Premananda Prabhu’s character, Srila Gurudeva next said, “I know him very personally.”

    So that’s why these rumors to me appear so baseless, because it goes against everything I’ve experienced in eleven years, and it goes against the words of the maha-bhagavata who is my beloved Gurudeva who placed me in this Vaisnava’s shelter. There are dozens of other Western brahmacaris who have similarly stayed with Prabhuji and have only been inspired by his engagement in bhakti and service and have never started rumors or made accusations. The fact that one or two boys over the course of 40 years of his service in a monastery have started some rumor does not substantiate them. It does not weigh heavier in the minds of people then the personal experience they have had with Premananda Prabhu. There have been no warning signs of improper behavior or misconduct in over two decades from people I myself live with or have heard from. Just like Srila Gurudeva would, Premananda Prabhu may occasionally show affection to a brahmacari with a hug or something, and a homophobic Westerner may misinterpret such behavior, but that doesn’t mean anything inappropriate occured. It is simply a case of making a mountain out of a molehill. With our material conditioning, we cannot always understand the spiritual behavior and internal moods of high-class Vaisnavas.

    Some people become tired of a monk’s life after a decade or so in the Matha, and feel like they have wasted the best time of their life as a monastic. They become frustrated and begin to blame the Vaisnava who supported them with kindness and affection over so many years. It can be a difficult life, so we don’t blame anyone. But its just a fact that some people have very unsavory characters and personalities.

    (large section edited out)

    No offense, but anyone can say anything they want about anyone else, without it being true. When serving for 40 years as a guardian to hundreds of young men in a monastery, it is almost inevitable that someone or other will turn antagonistic and start the rumor mill spinning.

    Now, living in the Matha year after year, or just living in a Vaisnava-sanga, we are all sadly affected to some extent or another by gossip churned out by the rumor mill. Most of us ignore such things and put them out of our minds. But if you want to be truly impartial, you should write articles about the rumors circulating about the other leaders in our Sanga. People who spend a lot of time around usually end up hearing something about almost everyone. Does that make it all true? Of course not. Counterfeit money is not real currency, but it exists on the strength of real currency and inevitably some are fooled and some are cheated. So it is a fact that some people who take the position of a spiritual leader are not worthy of the post and are actually offenders who commit criminal behavior. The sad thing is that a few bad cases cast doubt on everyone in peoples’ minds, when many of those Vaisnavas actually have spotless character and behavior. This is part of the work of Kali Maharaja in his effort to subdue the Sankirtan Movement.

    I hate to even repeat rumors, but when these nasty things are said about Premananda Prabhu, if we wish to be impartial, we should also talk publicly about the rumors going around about other Vaisnava leaders. I won’t talk about others, but I’ll just say two things in all fairness about some of the people spearheading a hate campaign against Premananda Prabhu.

    (Section edited out)

    I am not saying any of these rumors about them are true, the thing is, the rumor mill churns up all sorts of stuff, true or untrue. People may attack me for bringing respected **** in to this, but I think it is important for the case in point. You are saying this case is extra important because we claim Prabhuji is a ‘Bhagavat’ (which I have not said.) I have just repeated the words of personalities like Srila Bhaktivedanta Trivikrama Gosvami Maharaja who said that Prabhuji is a pure devotee.

    You seem to be drawing special attention to this case because so many people regard Prabhuji as a very advanced Vaisnava. (edited) So it seems like this case is even more important to investigate. However, I personally don’t believe the rumors. I think the rumors are probably the result of a misunderstanding or are simply false accusations.

    However, it is known that Madhusudana Maharaja has been highly critical in private of Premananda Prabhu. He spent an hour criticizing him violently to Madhuvrata Prabhu, who was Gurudeva’s personal sevaka, and to others. This animosity has a long history and as I understand it is coming from nurture, not nature. It is not necessary to go into details here. Suffice it to say, Gurudeva told Madhusudana Maharaja to stay in the Matha, and to not live with Krsna Priya didi, especially after taking sannyasa. We don’t want to point fingers or accuse anyone, but the truth is the truth, and in an impartial quest for truth, both sides of the story should be heard out. People should remember that when they point one finger, inevitably three fingers are pointing back.

    So if you really want to be impartial and fair, and are concerned about the supposed victims of these cases, and want justice for them all, then you should publish articles about all the rumors, and call for witch hunts and criminal cases against all the accused. I wish whoever decides to spend their life thusly engaged all the best. It is a very sad task.

    Vaisnava-dasanudas,
    Rasik Mohan das

    • Dandavat pranams, Rasik Mohan dasa
      I have edited your comment greatly due to the inflammatory content, but that being said: You still raise some valid points.
      I first want to say that your experiences with PP is not invalidated by these accusations. Your story is certainly part of the story, but every person may have different experiences with PP. For the most part when I write about PP I try to bring forward that he has done a lot of service – because he has and that needs to be taken into account. In the same way, your experience must also be taken into account. But it may not be the whole story. This is why there need to be an investigation. PPs followers are vocal in their support and there have been many of them.

      “The fact that one or two boys over the course of 40 years of his service in a monastery have started some rumor does not substantiate them.”
      There seem to be more than two boys, but any rumour of child abuse should be investigated. In such cases its better to be wrong than to do nothing. Just one rumour is enough, it should be dealt with. Children are too precious to allow a blasé attitude to it.
      I have edited out the part where you began going into the perceived character flaws and personality of one of the assumed victims. Here’s the thing: if a child is being molested over time, one way a child can react is to lash out towards authority figures which PP is. I’m not saying this to defend any behaviour, that is for me not important. But: I find it disturbing that you think this is okey to do towards somebody who may be claiming to have been molested. If a person tells of something bad that was done to him when he was a child, we don’t need to put the blame back to him or try to shame that person. No wonder nobody wants to come forward if that’s the compassion they receive.

      “Now, living in the Matha year after year, or just living in a Vaisnava-sanga, we are all sadly affected to some extent or another by gossip churned out by the rumor mill. Most of us ignore such things and put them out of our minds. But if you want to be truly impartial, you should write articles about the rumors circulating about the other leaders in our Sanga.”
      I make a distinction between crimes and deviations. Deviations is between two consenting adults, while a crime is more serious. Child molestations is one of the most serious charges there is. Now you point to specific rumors, some of them I have heard before, some is new, but they all come within deviations and not crimes.

      I have no interest to start a religious gossip magazine. What I do is question siddhanta and write about trying to live a spiritual life. I have only once before written about what can be perceived as character flaw and that was with Bhakti Tirtha Mj, and I wasn’t the one who made that public. That was also a crime being committed, but a less serious one. There’s a huge difference between deviations and a crime.
      It’s important to be able to make distinctions.

      You bring in a story of Madhusudhana Mhj and some personal dislike towards PP. I wouldn’t know anything about that. I don’t know him, though I have briefly met him. KBM has nothing to do with me publicizing this and I suspect they don’t want any part of it either. I think they have enough with dealing with the aftermath of the Prabhupada svarupa debate. So I also hope you can make a distinction between me and KBM. I am not a representative of KBM in any way and they wouldn’t need me to speak their case. I’m a free agent – or at least try to be.

  8. Madhusudan Maharaja says “Whole life I never talked with Premananda Prabhu even once, I never said anything about Premananda to madhuvrata. Why is he saying this?”

    Damodar Maharaja says, “I was there through the whole sanyassa ceremony of Madhusudana maharaja, Gurudeva never told him to leave kb, he never even once told Madhusudna Maharaja to come to the Math in his whole life.”

  9. When Gurudeva gave sanyassa to Maharaja then he was extremely happy, and he said “I have done everything I wanted to do” and I was also in the room in Puri when Madhusudan Mahara asked Gurudeva for his last instruction, and Gurudeva said to Madhusudan Mahara “Your place is Vrindavan, You go to Vrindavan!”

    • I was in Puri when Madhusudan Maharaj told that it will be nice to stay and do personal service for guru, but Srila Gurudeva requested him to go to Vrindavan(What are you doing here? ,Your place is Vrindavan). it vas on morning class. He was very sad because of that.

  10. “Let the hate flow through you Luke…….Feel the power of the dark side”….DV

    Hatred is blind

    Sri Premananda dasa brahmachari is innocent.

    Cursed are those who bear false witness…..so mind your own business

    • You are the one who only contribute with slogans without explaining yourself properly. Who use the word hate and curse. You are on a low level compared to the rest of the commentators – including those who support PP

  11. “There can be no room for such allegations to run amok within our community.”

    Your words above….why are you digging up these horrible accusations on a public, world-wide forum?…which directly or indirectly allow “allegations to run amok within our community”.
    THIS ( THE INTERNET) IS NOT THE PLACE FOR SUCH DISCUSSIONS NOR THE METHOD FOR BRINGING PROPER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WITHIN OUR VAISNAVA COMMUNITY.
    Is a (false) accusation, and your assumed role to communicate your “concerns” about it, world-wide, any different than a ‘rape of innocence’, or the rape of an innocent? You should not be using your blob in this manner. It is a horrible abuse of power to use the internet in this way.
    Anyone is innocent until proven guilty.
    BUT MY POINT IS……THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT THE PROPER FORUM FOR THAT PROCEDURE. PERIOD.

  12. Hare Krsna!

    It is important to note here Didi, that Gaura Prana was a young man when he lived in the matha. In my eleven years here, there haven’t been any ‘children’ living here, so the question of child molestation is not relevant here. The boys who live in the Matha are in there 20’s, 30’s, and older. Some have been 18 or so when they joined. But there have been no children living here. It is not a Gurukula for young boys and has never been. When the group of boys came from Badger, we came after high school, including Gaura Prana. So questions of child molestation do not come up here. You say Prabhuji should not be with anyone underage in his room, good, because he never is. He is either with a few brahmacaris, or alone chanting, or with guests. The problem is with the post you made, is that it doesn’t illuminate the actual state of the Matha here, now or in the past. And so people who don’t know the actual state here or in Gurudeva’s time just read and have to hear the accusations. My point about being impartial was relevant, because it was not a case of deviation, but actual criminal activity as you describe it. So again, I see it as partial in this case to delete the parts that you deem inflammatory, when your whole article is inflammatory. They are just as valid rumors as any you have posted. And also, the details about Gaura Prana are very relevant for the case in hand, because it revealed a repeated trend of certain behavior towards guardians and caretakers. It was very relevant, and the fact that you delete it, shows that you don’t want an open and fair conversation here.

  13. “In my eleven years here, there haven’t been any ‘children’ living here, so the question of child molestation is not relevant here.”
    This is a good point that an investigation would point out.
    “The problem is with the post you made, is that it doesn’t illuminate the actual state of the Matha here, now or in the past.”
    True. It doesn’t.
    I really try to emphasize in my posting that all I ask for is an investigation – by officials and internally within the sanga. But as you point out, this post will easily be misleading towards the actual state of how things are. That’s why we need to have an investigation by some hopefully neutral people.
    “So again, I see it as partial in this case to delete the parts that you deem inflammatory, when your whole article is inflammatory. They are just as valid rumors as any you have posted.”
    The rumors you point to is just as valid as those I have published – yes. But I wish you could understand that there is a huge difference of heaviness. There is a huge distinction between deviations and these crimes.
    “the details about Gaura Prana are very relevant for the case in hand, because it revealed a repeated trend of certain behavior towards guardians and caretakers. It was very relevant, and the fact that you delete it, shows that you don’t want an open and fair conversation here.”
    Is it relevant? Really?
    It’s common knowledge that if a child is being abused that they lash out towards their caretakers and “guardians”. Especially if these so called guardians is is the ones doing the abuse. It worries me that you are unable to see these actions in a different light. It doesn’t mean that your or mine interpretation is correct, but that there are many reasons why people behave the way they do. It’s not up to us to judge why. We will only cause more damage by judging others behaviors – it’s better to let the suspected victims define their behavior themselves.
    There is something called cognitive bias. This cartoon illustrates well what it is.

    First you point to a person who has been wrongly identified as a victim and say that there is nothing to these allegations. Then, when BV Damodar reveals the name of one suspected victim, you dig into his history and points out everything that you think supports your case. Then you lash out with whatever rumors you have on those you perceive is attacking you. So far I haven’t seen many signs that you are able to entertain other viewpoints than your own.
    I’m able to entertain many conflicting viewpoints at once – then one has to see if the internal map one has is correct to make any judgments.
    But also I am victim to cognitive bias. Am I impartial? I don’t claim to be, but I try to be objective. The problem is that one can never truly be impartial and objective. We may not recognize our own unconscious biases.
    You ask for an open and fair conversation. The problem is that in this case it’s not really possible. If a crime has been committed, it’s not fair towards the victim. If an assailant has been wrongfully accused – it’s not fair towards him. In such cases, there is no fairness. There are no winners and one can’t really have an open conversations because the persons involved have a right for privacy. That their details are not being publicized.
    This is why we need an investigation. This case will not be solved in the comments of this post. By publicizing this I have most likely created a lot of damage in the hopes that these allegations will be dealt with. It’s so easy for me to hide behind the keyboard and let everybody else deal with the downfall where you are one of those directly touched by it. It’s not fair. Not in the least.
    I pray to Gurudeva every day that he may forgive me for whatever damage I have done in this case. But I can’t let rumors of child abuse run rampant without a reaction. I can’t. This is the first time I have made public rumors in the sanga. If I have commented on rumors before I have never been the one who have made them public. This is the first time. There is a heaviness to these claims that should invoke a reaction in leaders that they need to be dealt with – not suppressed or let go on.

  14. Hare Krsna!

    Please send me your email address Didi. I appreciate your candor and I think there is much more it would be helpful for you to know to help this situation. I didn’t dig up anything about Gaur Prana, rather, I have known him and been friends with him since he was a kid, went to the same Gurukula with him, and was in the Matha the whole time he was a Brahmacari as well. My take on the matter is not arbitrary and the rumors you deleted are a very small tip of the iceberg. I feel deeply for the victims, but the sad thing is that here the victim of accusation without any substantiation is Premananda Prabhu. If Gaur Prana or anyone else was molested, and is a victim, their family or they themselves should step forward. Why haven’t they done so? Since Premananda Prabhu here is a victim of accusation, I am simply stepping forward to give a little sense to the situation.

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