BANding: Rasa of Srila Prabhupada

I wasn’t aware that KBM had been banned from preaching (see bottom) in the North American Sanga’s of Srila B.V. Narayan Maharaja until a few days ago. Sooo…..

this is very isckon like, isn’t it?

So what did I do? I googled the banning Gurudeva experienced from isckon. And guess what I found in one of the official isckon papers:

Puri Maharaja also remarked that he himself knew quite well the spiritual master of Narayana Maharaja, H. H. Keshava Prajna Maharaja. He said that Keshava Maharaja never spoke of such topics. “So,” Puri Maharaja remarked, “it is a mystery where Narayana Maharaja is bringing these rasika topics in from.”

Yes… Gurudeva never spoke of such a topic. So where indeed do these KBM people get bringing these rasika topics from? It must be a mystery.

From my knowledge – Gurudeva never banned anyone, at most he warned that one shouldn’t hear from Prem Prayojana, but still he let him talk during his lectures. But apparantly, banning is now what we do.

Yes… let’s do what was done towards Gurudeva. They couldn’t possibly have some knowledge beyond Gurudevas spoken ones, so they must be wrong. And what do we do with those we disagree with?

We will have Harmony. Resistance is futile. You will comply.



9 thoughts on “BANding: Rasa of Srila Prabhupada

  1. Your information is inaccurate as there are no statements anywhere bannining anyone. The sangas are composed of devotees who determine what is nourishing for their progress in spiritual life and those who collectively spoke said the association of the devotees who made the words Srila Narayana Maharaja relative to accomadate their subjective faith in their siksha Guru were not those whose association was spiritually nourishing as the backbone of bhakti is Guru nistha devotees did not feel their nistha strengthened by KBM association. That in no way stops anyone who finds something in their association from hosting and associating with them. There was a communication asking one of KBM ‘s leading sanyasi preachers to leave when he expressed doubt in their understanding of this issue. so perhaps inquiry should be balanced and accurate in other words you might want to ask about “banning” from KBM as well

  2. To clarify KBM asked one of their preachers to write a letter to his disciples and leave if he did not accept the conclusions there.

  3. This is what is stated in the bottom of the note from Bhaktivedanta Nemi Maharaja:
    For example, I have just received the following message: “The North American Sanga’s of Srila B.V. Narayan Maharaja (called Bhakti America) have sent a communique to all the (Srila Narayana Maharaja’s) Sanga’s in the USA that this (Krishna Balarama Mission’s preachers) will not be supported in any of the temples, centers or Sanga’s in North America.”

    So my information seems pretty accurate. I’ve added a link to the statement in the post, since I had forgotten it.

    Does this stop anyone from individually hosting KBM preachers? No. But, it’s pretty close to the same ban Gurudeva experienced where isckon didn’t like that he accepted individual peoples invitation. Look at the statement – “any of the temples, centers or Sanga’s in North America”.

    A ban is no foundation for Harmony. This is more a foundation of splitting people up into groups.

  4. The following Bhakti America statement was posted by Mukunda das on FB on March 14, 10 days after KBM’s initial paper was posted. Note that the statement omitted all the evidence that appeared as end notes to KBM’s paper.

    Mukunda Das
    March 14 ·
    The members of Bhakti America which is a representation of the communities and Sangas of Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja in North America held a meeting to discuss the recent position paper which was posted to the public forum Facebook by the senior members of the Krishna Balaram Mandira Seva Kunja. This temple is under the leadership of Pujyapad BV Madhusudhana Maharaja, and Srimati Krishna Priya Didi.
    We have not spoken to them personally and with all respect we are open to hear from them regarding the matter.
    The post written by the sannyasi preachers BV Sadhu Maharaja and BV Damodara Maharaja, which is printed here reflects statements and conceptions which were not in line with the stated convictions of our Srila Gurudeva, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja; and while we acknowledge the right of the members of the Krishna Balaram Mandira to accept conclusions born from their understanding, where that differs from Our Srila Gurudeva, we cannot accept.
    The mutual decision of the sangas here was that at this time, we do not support the preaching of the members of Krishna Balaram Mandira in our temples, centers, and sangas in North America. We have no say over what happens in other places since everyone must act according to their own convictions in this matter. It should be noted that our decision carries no malice or personal ILL will, the decision was based solely on the public position adopted by the preachers and members of the Krishna Balarama Mandira which we found not to be what we heard from Srila Gurudeva.
    Though it adds to the volume of this letter, we feel it important to post both the position paper in question and a written letter from Srila Gurudeva regarding his conviction in this matter.

    The following is A Statement from Sri Krsna-Balarama Mandira (Seva-kunja) on the Svarupa of Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja
    March 4, 2015 at 10:02am
    All Glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga!
    Dear devotees of nitya-lila-pravistha om visnupada 108 Sri Srila BhaktivedantaNarayana Gosvami Maharaja Srila Gurudeva, and nitya-lila-pravistha om visnupada 108 Sri Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja, all over the world –
    I offer my appropriate dandavat pranama to you, in accordance with your position.
    The discussion of transcendental subjects is not merely brain exercise. By logic and argument you cannot prove anything; whatever you establish will later be destroyed by a bigger argument. To understand transcendental things requires balanced heart and mind. Sometimes we use only our mind but not heart, and sometimes only our heart but no mind, but to discuss properly we should be neutral, like a judge considering all evidence. Then a proper conclusion can come.
    First of all, in whichever mood parampujyapad Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja is rendering seva in Goloka-Vrndavana, there is no question of that being lower or higher. There is pure adjustment in the transcendental world. Conditioned souls cannot understand that really everything there is completely cinmaya. Whether one is in sakhya, vastslya, or madhurya-rasa, all are transcendental, and so there is no differentiation. Only for lila is there division of rasas. From this world, the jivas have to respect all these transcendental relationships.
    Our paramaradhyatama Srila Gurudeva, Srila Bhakti Vedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja said Srila Swami Maharaja’s glory is that he is a Rupanuga Vaisnava, and that is certainly true. Whichever bhava any of our acaryas has, he had to take from Srila Rupa Gosvami’s moods and ideas, for any rasa. Therefore all acaryas in our parampara are called Rupanuga, although each one will not cross beyond the area of his own rasa; all follow Srila Rupa Gosvami, but there is some special part or department that not all touch. We can see in the folio that Srila Swami Maharaja has mentioned “Rupa Gosvami” thousands of time in his books, but “Rupa-manjari” only five times, and “radha-dasyam” never once.
    They can argue that “my Gurudeva said, so it is true!” but there is no sense in it. Such statements. Sometimes Srila Gurudeva also said that Srila Swami Maharaja is Rupanuga in the internal sense, “serving like Sri Rupa-manjari.” We can compare this with how Srila Swami Maharaja repeatedly told his disciples that his own god-brothers were all kanistha-adhikaris. That was not true, and anyone who insists to follow these statements on the pretext of guru-nistha will commit grave offense. of Srila Swami Maharaja were very bold and clear, but false. He spoke like that for his disciples’ welfare, to keep them from going here and there so he could keep them close and give proper nourishment. This is called preaching tactics.
    For his own preaching, Srila Gurudeva also used tactics for the welfare of those he was helping. I heard he told one devotee who was very attached to Jesus that Jesus was also in manjari-bhava, and took birth in our parampara to perfect that. We should understand that before Srila Gurudeva traveled to foreign countries this mood was not present anywhere in the western world at all. He brought this manjari mood to the western world, and it was a shock, a surprise for many. Therefore in the beginning stage of his preaching at that time he had to do things very carefully. Some statements can take your preaching very high, and some can immediately destroy your preaching. For this reason, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura also says, “Oh my dear preachers, if you want to propagate the mission of Sriman Mahaprabhu then sometimes you must hide the truth if that will make a big quarrel and disturb your preaching.”
    Wise persons know that by catching hold of a supremely exalted personality’s feet, one’s desires can be quickly fulfilled. In this way, whichever rasa one has intrinsically will very quickly come to siddhi by following Srila Rupa Gosvami’s ideas and taking shelter of Sri Radha. Satyavrata Muni ultimately prays “namo radhikayai” at the climax of his Damodarastakam prayers, but his mood is not manjari-bhava. Sri Suradasaji has vatsalya mood, but so extensively extols madhurya-rasa in his poetry. Sri Uddhavaji prays for the dust of Srimati Radharani’s lotus feet (10.47.63), and Sri Bhismadeva also offers prayers touching the mood of the gopis even at the last moment of his life (SB 1.9.40). None of them have gopi-bhava, but they take support of that highest mood to attain their own perfection. Similarly, there is no problem for someone in sakhya- rasa to receive and chant sannyasa-mantra (gopi-bhava-mantra), any more than it is inappropriate for him to chant gopala-mantra or kama-gayatri. For example, Srila Gurudeva also gave gopala-mantra even to some devotees he confirmed were intrinsically Rama bhaktas, because these highest mantras nourish all rasas.
    Our Srila Gurudeva is a very high personality. He is transcendental and knows everything – what is good for all jivas and how to distribute this highest mercy, but very few persons can actually understand him. If Srila Gurudeva had said, “I am in madhurya-rasa but Srila Swami Maharaja is in sakhya-rasa,” a big battle would have come. Then how could he fulfill the order of Srila Swami Maharaja, his siksa-guru and bosom friend, to help his ISKCON devotees? They and the whole world would have been deprived of very important things.
    Parampujyapada Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja said that Srila Swami Maharaja was in sakhya-rasa and following that this type of attack came from a neophyte section of Srila Swami Maharaja’s followers. So Srila Gurudeva knew very well, “If i give a correct statement about this then my preaching will be disturbed.”
    To defeat Buddhism and accomplish Bhagavan’s purposes, Sri Sankaracarya also used wise preaching tactics. Where the Buddhists said truth is sunya, nothing, he said “no it is something, but that something is nothing,” and thus played both sides for fulfilling his mission. Srila Jiva Goswami also apparently established svakiya-bhava in vrndavana-lila, but if there is svakiya, what is the need for preparing any kunjas for Sri Radha-Krsna? They can just go to Their house. Srila Jiva Gosvami made such statements only to pacify a certain section of stubborn persons who could not accept his own mood of parakiya. In Sri Sridhara Swami’s commentaries on Srimad Bhagavatam we sometimes find a smell of mayavada, and it appears as if he gives support to the doctrine of impersonalism. By this ‘smell’ he gradually attracts mayavadis to the devotional conception. When a fisherman puts bait on his hook, it appears he is giving fish something to eat, but his intention is to catch them. An acarya’s inner mood can be very difficult to understand. When Sriman Mahaprabhu was crying in front of Sri Jagannathadeva, many people were there but only very few persons like Srila Rupa Gosvami could understand His heart. The common people were perhaps thinking He has some family problem, and is praying to the Lord for material help. Only by so much sadhu-sanga, so much deep study, and by keeping a peaceful mind can you one day realize a Vaisnava’s heart.
    An acarya’s own writings and activities are the biggest evidence indicating his mood. The prayers of Srila Swami Maharaja in his diary are proof of what he wants: “Oh Brother, Sri Krsna, when will I graze the cows and sport with You and the cowherd boys. Vane khai lutaputi – we will steal each other’s lunches and have picnic in the forest.” This has been accepted as Srila Swami Maharaja’s eternal sakhya mood by parampujyapad Srila Bhakti Pramoda Puri Maharaja and
    parampujyapad Srila Sridhara Maharaja. Many times he plainly indicated that he was in sakhya-rasa, and longed to enter these pastimes, enjoying laddus and kacauris with the cowherd boys. All of this evidence has already been compiled before by his disciples*.
    Another consideration is that Srila Swami Maharaja has established the deities Sri Radha-Krsna everywhere in the world, but that is out of preference for the pleasure of his spiritual master, just as our Srila Gurudeva established his own Guru Maharaja’s istadevas Sri Radha-Vinoda-vihari everywhere. However, in Vrndavana, where in his own nitya-siddha svarupa he performs his seva, there Srila Swami Maharaja established Sri Krsna-Balarama in Raman-reti, the place of cow-grazing pastimes. He has placed Them centrally, and Sri Radha- Syamasundara to one side. No Vaisnava can place his istadeva on the side, or tolerate that they be placed so by anyone else.
    In this way, the sakhya-rasa of Srila Swami Maharaja is supported by Hari (SriKrsna-Balarama), Guru (his own writings and words), and Vaisnava (his exalted, omniscient, maha-bhagavat senior god-brothers). What Srila Gurudeva has told in apparent contradiction to this has also been clearly reconciled. We are presenting this matter before the devotees to consider for themselves. Some people are criticizing us for this, but that is normal. We accept. But if in our Srila Gurudeva’s name they speak like this they will bring bad reputation to him, and for this reason we present these ideas.
    Finally, everyone should understand that in whichever rasa Srila Swami Maharajais doing his eternal seva, he is the worshipable deity for the whole world, and that sakhya-rasa is no small thing. Srila Sanatana Gosvami’s masterpiece Sri Brhad- Bhagavatamrta establishes the glory of sakhya-rasa. No seva is higher or lower in Goloka-Vrndavana – all are fully transcendental. We should not try to pull Srila Swami Maharaja from his own rasa to another position, or he will not be happy. Whichever deity one serves must be worshipped with the mantra and paraphernalia appropriate to him. Datura flowers are only for offering to Siva, and java flowers are only for Durga. If by ignorance or by force you offer them to Sri Krsna, He will not be satisfied. Similarly, Srila Swami Maharaja should be worshipped in his own mood. If someone has a small brain and a small heart then this understanding cannot enter. For bhajana, we need so much sadhu- sanga and such a broad, bright mind and heart. Only those pure bhaktas for whom the lotus feet of Sri Guru, Vaisnava and Bhagavan are everything, can understand, enter, and taste bhakti-rasa (dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, madhurya).
    Sri Krsna-Balarama MandiraSeva-Kunja, Vrndavana


    Now our Srila Gurudeva expresses his own conviction in regard to the Svarup of Srila Prabhupada. Especially important is that this was a personal letter to PP Tripurari Maharaja which he made public, Srila Gurudeva would have no reason to so call use a “preaching tactic” here as he was speaking to a mature devotee in a private setting who holds the same conviction you are saying is held by the members of KB temple.
    Dear Sripad B.V. Tripurari Maharaja,
    Please accept my heartly dandavats pranams. All glories to Sri Sri Guru and Gauranga, all glories to Sri Sri Radha Vinode Bihariji.
    I received your letter and became very happy to hear from you after a long, long time.
    Regarding the contents of your message, if you have strong belief that your Gurumaharaja was in sakhya mood, I have no objection. I do not desire to enter into debate – argument and counter argument. You should understand that I know Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja from beginning, since 1946. He is my siksa guru, also he is my bosom friend; many times we were laughing and joking together. So, I know him and I have a strong belief that he is in gopi bhava, following the mood of Sri Rupa Manjari. You will not be able to change my conviction and I request that you will not try to do this. I am satisfied that you have a strong faith that your Gurumaharaja is in sakhya bhava. But I want to inform you that Rupanuga means that he follows Srila Rupa Gosvami and Sri Rupa Manjari.
    I also know that he was familiar with this sloka:
    ‘aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa tanayas tad dhama vrndavanam / ramya kacid upasana vraja vadhu vargena ya kalpita / srimad bhagavatam pramanam amalam prema pum-artho mahan / sri caitanya mahaprobhor matam idam tatradaro nah parah’
    He has also read Sri Bhaktirasamrta Sindhu and Sri Ujjvala Nilamani; thus he was able to select the best method of worship. Also he was familiar with:
    ‘anarpita-carim cirat karunayavatirna kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala rasam sva bhakti sriyam
    Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has come to give raganuga marg and especially within this raganuga marg the mood of Sri Rupa Manjari.
    Thus I cannot admit anything else, but I appreciate your belief that he was in sakhya bhava.
    Swami B.V. Srila BV Narayan Maharaja
    This is offered in the humble service of Our Srila Gurudeva
    Bhakti America Seva Team

  5. I’m truly grateful for Haridasi’s objective and resourceful approach in this matter.

    Unfortunately this is not only in America, we (KBM followers) have recently experienced “no entry allowed” apologies from a temple in Europe as well.

    All sastric knowledge and logic of the whole universe will not be enough to support realizations on this subject!

    Fear from the unknown and inconceivable is spread amongst most non – believers. But we are not considering ourselves non – believers.

    We consider ourselves devotees of Sri Radha Krsna!

    As devotees of Sri Radha Yugala Kishora we shall bow our heads down – especially when we cannot understand topics that are beyond our realizations and pray for our Guru’s and the Lord’s blessings that They will shower Their mercy upon us and we may understand.

    We must apply humble approach to such high topics that have now become as ordinary as rain in the monsoon season by being overly discussed through logic and knowledge.

    PP Sripad Madhusudan Maharaj and Srimati Krsna Priya Thakurani are presenting a well supported evidence from all aspects – sastra, logic and above all – realization!

    Srimati Krsna Priya Thakurani has such an auspicious birth and so does Sripad Madhusudan Maharaj. The whole family in a Vaisnava line for generations. They both are actively practicing Vaisnavas from a very very very young age. If not for anything else, than for this plain facts we should all bow our heads down in respect to their realisations and be grateful for their sharing them with us.

    How do we find it in our hearts to even compare ourselves to them?! Mostly this is being discussed by western devotees and quite frankly, it just shows how unqualified we are! How terribly bound by all the wrong samskaras we are. Or am I equal to such high class vaisnavas just because I was born to the disciples of Srila BV Swami Maharaj, thus being the first generation of devotees born in the west???!!

    Again and again I ask all devotees who are making so much offence against such high class sadhus as Srimati Krsna Priya Thakurani And Sripad Madhusudan Maharaj – please! see what you are doing to your own self! even if you can’t agree to what KBM are saying, find true Vaisnava behaviour within and humbly proceed!

    • I am so sorry to hear that followers have experienced “no entry allowed” from a temple. I can understand that one don’t want conflicting siddhanta preached, but just ordinary bhaktas with a desire for kirtan, harikatha and association? This is not okey in the least.

      Thank you for the rest of the beautiful statement you provided.

  6. we are aspiring for the highest and most beautiful and talk about this, but at the same
    time we are sometimes unable to do our work in the mortal world and behave like
    mistreated children.
    Srila Gurudeva used to say, that if we are not able to love an give respect and affection here in this world, how could we go there?
    We argument and counterargument and hurt others and miss the whole point.
    Very sad to witness this.

    • I have loved all the siddhanta that has poured through from this controversy, but this banning has made me sad as well. It’s unnecessary.

      Vaishnavas giving due respect for differing views are beautiful, but this?

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